You took the words out of my mouth,…and fairly.
And I took them out of the mouth of Carol Cocheres.
Her words appear in the Business Week article and link I provided, so the source is clear.

But the concept is not.
So I will reduce it here.
If I buy a $500,000 home and promise to pay $1,000 a month for however many years, plus interest, a contract has been set. If I now make no payments of $1,000 for 6 months, I am clearly in default and the place will be foreclosed, or I can go bankrupt and hope to gain better terms.

The DEFAULT does not change. The default is still $500,000.
Your concentration is on the missing 6 payments; mine is on the entire default of $500,000
(which is the $288 million that Cocheres and I speak about for Harrisburg). This is tomato or tomahto stuff.

Somalia? No. Pennsylvania and guns are synonymous from day one in the USA establishment. And one need only read the daily news in Erie, PA to see the vast amount of gun news this year to date. All of it negative, dangerous, fatal at times, and apparently growing, though I have no stats…just my opinion there. It does not look good that guns are grabbed first to resolve issues. I refer to here, not Somalia.

I recall a bank robber in Erie Labor Day weekend in the 1980′s escaping through Union City and Corry to the woods, off Rt 6. I was camping over the line in NY, and the State police moved all campers to a new site, while they helicoptered in darkness looking for this guy. How was he found?

A guy by Warren stuck a shotgun out his upper window and caught the guy. To wit, a citizen did it.
That is a very active phenomenon in our state to this day; lotsa guns in homes.

I am glad we agree that our legislative branch in Harrisburg is far too large, and if the little towns in the top of PA were allowed to vote solely on losing their representation, to rid the state of 8 out of 10 bodies representing us, who allow us to pay more for electricity, raising their pensions 25% (as a Ridge coax to pass laws), helping themself to raises at will, and running the state unlawfully without a budget for three months this last year…..well, I think they would vote to do away with that many. The rural folks are among the most pragmatic in the state.

Commentary is a funny thing. The written word can be misunderstood, as we all have varying backgrounds and beliefs, and prejudices.

So, I scooted back to see what others say on my comments, John….like this:

Dan Desrochers-candidate Erie County Council says:
November 3, 2009 at 10:04 AM
Danny

What a great post! You made me laugh out loud with the whole “scope” issue. I think political endorsements by the media as a whole are a bad idea. It shows they think they know more than the voters do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

And this one John:

kc says:
November 11, 2009 at 11:49 PM
danny it’s been a while since i have found the time to read blogs or at even the times. i enjoyed your blogs on judge domitrovitch and researched your other posts. you have a way of pointing out every aspect of a situation with sharp wit and sarcasm that i chuckle or say he’s right in original posts and responses to your detractors or uh oh haters. i am a mother of a 4 year old and work 45 hours a week so i catch up when i can and it better be stimulating…. i will continue to catch up on yours, read pat howard and the erie times letters to the editors. i am hooked.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It appears that there are people who do not comment much here, but DO find value in my point of view, commentary, and the way I express it.

Over time, and over a variety of issues, I hope to see you changed in view, and become among those folks.
You have an open and receptive mind, not predisposed to knee jerk response.

Either way, I am grateful that you have expressed your points with civility, and lack of personal attack.
Several blogs have bit the dust in our area for just that reason.
Press and Tower walks the line at times on personal attack by many, to many, but is still attracting notice from around the globe on Feedjit.

Though you promised this would be the last word on the above topic, I hope that you re-engage on issues important to you and this audience.

I personally favor the issue of New Media, and the inability of our local media to embrace it and do it.

Broadband deception in our town is of great interest to me too. We do not have what other areas have; businesses laugh at the very first venture into town.
Idiocy Broadband service prevents our growth.
Western States actually employ a sizeable part of towns by individuals with no degree, but Broadband, linking to Korea and teaching English to the Koreans from home.
We could do that from Erie to around the globe if we had Broadband universal around here.

There is so much possibility for business in this town if we could catch the top of the wave instead of curling and crashing with miserable Broadband. Another day for that.

Last word for you John, is the two fingered salute kind:
PEACE!

Danny

Wow. I hardly know where to begin.

First, I quote directly from the second sentence of your first post:

“Only $64 million so far, and that pales not because we are 4 days into the second month, but because they forgot to pay $288 million LAST YEAR that was guaranteed in “full faith and credit”

Yes, you did say “forgot to pay $288 million LAST YEAR …” You did not say failed to make debt payments on $288 million last year. That’s a big difference, and one I would have expected a critical thinker to realize.

And you did not attribute the $288 million remark to anyone. You simply stated it as fact.

As for Act 47, it is not bankruptcy or a bankruptcy proceeding, although there are some similarities for the municipality. But to be sure, the state does not assume the municipal debt burden or the cost of municipal operations. However, I suppose the city could be in for a state bailout if the legislature so voted. Stranger things have happened in Pennsylvania.

I’m not going to try to refute you point by point where I see either error, or simply hyperbole. However, there are a couple more points I would like to make.

You stated (I hope at best as hyperbole): “Will problems ensue?
Not in crime. Everyone in PA has a gun (Ok, John…not everyone) but enough own guns to take action against locals who need gunpowder to make a point.”

Danny, that’s Somalia. I don’t want to live in Somalia. And I say that as someone who is probably far better prepared to live in such an environment than the average resident of the state.

Just so you know we are not in total disagreement, largely go along with this statement: “The PA Legislature is abysmal in numbers and could easily be cut by a factor of 80%….less damage to all. Goodness John, Nebraska runs on Unicameral, not Bicameral as we do”

Eighty percent might be a bit high (remember rural areas would end up having less of a voice as you reduce the size of the legislature.)

I will tell you that I think I have exhibited a great deal more critical thinking than you are showing in some of your posts, although I ‘m sure you will see it differently. Frankly, I believe you often mistake bombast for eloquence and/or critical thinking.
View this as constructive criticism.

Since such back and forth posts as this can go on ad infinitum I will prevent that from happening by letting you have the last and final word on this matter.

John

These Stations provided our community with Information, News,Positive Messages as well as instructons that would help to Up-Lift Our Community with the help of the magnitic atraction of Urban Music (Hip-Hop, R&B and Gospel).

Yes, these people as you say, Took a stand to do for themselve’s and there community that you would have never done Mr. PR and Others that would welcome and rejoice in the shut down of these so-called Pirates.

You act as if you are the God of Media,News and Commentary, take a look in the Mirror, You might see a Slinking Devil to yourself and other.

It’s good to know that you don’t have the last say.
Peace

Further, what kind of PR reads my comments, if you believe them to be worthless? Says more about you than me, eh?

Just the other day, I got cut off twice in Mall traffic getting off 79 going south. I got passed on I-79 and immediately he brakes to Exit.
Bumper to bumper, and misaligned lights stopped all traffic. A guy who cut me off, then swerved right and cut the right lane guy off, THEN, went to the light at the Mall and turn LEFT in the right lane.

We all stopped over the bridge as the light changed and all were trapped anew. This guy angrily, left his car to move through lines and head toward me. I reached deep in the glove compartment, and slowly moved my hands to my lap as he approached. He stopped dead in his tracks as he watched that action, and then saw me lift a cell phone to take his license number, and an abandoned car in mid traffic (a hazard). He raced back to his car and we inched forward. Soon, I was next to him.

He glared at me and gave me the peace finger, but forgot to include one of the fingers of peace. I lifted my cell camera to record THAT behavior too, and he left.

Given your propensity to act like that fellow in every comment you make to me, I was wondering if that was you, PR. This audience is used to your mindskills, insights, and jarring thoughts.

Stay in your car when driving.
Stay in your mind when writing.
Peace to you.
I leave it up to you, as to the number of actual fingers I am using in my peace salute to you.

As Smokey says: “Only YOU can prevent PR attacks!”

There is no reason to bring God into your response. He is busy enough with His own work, without having to supplement your contentions (erroneous I might add).

Per John: “Harrisburg’s debt is $288 million. That is [NOT] -my emphasis- what it failed to pay.”

Per John: (to Danny) “either get a fact-checker or hold yourself in check.”. Good advice for a John who fails to read articles with critical thinking skills.

Johnny, you attribute a quote to me that I did not make. The babe in Harrisburg is clear as can be:

“Carol Cocheres, bond counsel for the incinerator’s operator, the Harrisburg Authority, told the city council at a Dec. 14 hearing that the city is already in danger of legal action for payments [that were missed last year on $288 million in debt it has guaranteed with its full faith and credit]
Pay attention to the part between “[" and "]“.

“There’s never been a default like this in Pennsylvania municipal history,” she said. “This is all new territory.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You attribute a quote right out of Business Week to me.
Check your facts John. Why does Carol say “PAYMENTS THAT WERE MISSED LAST YEAR ON $288 MILLION DOLLARS”, use her full name, title, position….and then along comes “John”(no last name, status, or critical thinking skill” ,to declare “Not true; check your facts”.

In either case, you attribute the quote (FACT ON DEBT) to me…but the lovely Carol Cocheres said it.
How can you fail to read that, while maligning God simulataneously?

Municipal versus State stuff?
Let me spell it out for you John.
When bankruptcy occurs, assets are yielded to forego debts. If the Act 47 bankruptcy procedures are chosen and done in Harrisburg, the State owns the assets as well as the debts. (Surely every town in the State would follow too.)

Now, if they sell Harrisburg assets to recoup losses on the bankrupt debt, keep in mind that the State STILL has the debt not paid off, but does have alternate assets to come clean and equal. Things like the Capitol Building or other piddle items I mentioned.

With respect to THIS year in the city there, the entire operating budget is exceeded by ALL incoming property taxes. I am not going to repeat that here; it is in the story I linked and plain as day. If all 47,000 residents pay in full, the operating budget…..not the incinerator crapola…is $2 million in the hole ON TOP OF THE LAST YEAR missing $288 million.

But I guess the difference in approach is that I list some reasonable, and perhaps less than reasonable options for action…to a meeting then in session (all week).

The PA Legislature is abysmal in numbers and could easily be cut by a factor of 80%….less damage to all.
Goodness John, Nebraska runs on Unicameral, not Bicameral as we do. Less filling on the debt side.

I proposed a two year suspension of everything in my comment, albeit “till hell freezes over” could be misconstrued by someone who can not read the simple $288 million missed, and who actually said that fact.

With respect to your assertion on the ETN, they do not need me to point out their myriad foibles. Just this day, I read Phil English’ blog referring to “erratic Times-News” and surprisingly, the effervescent first comment refers to the “erratic Times-News” too.
I am hardly alone in view of the comment cutting, comment losing, non reporting entity we have locally.

Erratic is truly polite, and certainly not inclusive.
My reference is to the BizBuzz alone, and contrasts their importance of a local bank move, with the unprecendented bankruptcy of a city, nay THE CAPITAL, of Pennsylvania. I think the latter is more important.

Fire the people? I spoke of legislators, lawyers, judges, even the Governor, who has gutted the Key in Keystone, eh?
In the history of our country, cities have run fine without politicos, and can do so again. The people stepped up to the plate and did what needed done (including hosing the fire next door until extinguished).
The people work well together when needed.

As for passing ther buck from municipal to state level, maybe you are to young to recall Three Mile Island and making Amish farms radioactive for a while, almost melting our way to China. That STATE cost was passed to the federal level as I recall, so the intermingling of government levels is precedented. Mr. Habitat For Humanity Carter wore yellow boots and walked the Three Mile Island to show us he is glowingly cool. He never lifted a hammerto fix the place though.

Last, you mention fire, police, and essential workers for public safety type employees. Can’t see where I said get rid of them, but since you have not mentioned one iota of thought toward solving the problem, as I most certainly did, I support that suggestion by you and say adios to all of the above for two years until folks get some jobs, pay taxes, and we run as a state anew.

Will problems ensue?
Not in crime. Everyone in PA has a gun (Ok, John…not everyone) but enough own guns to take action against locals who need gunpowder to make a point.

Fires? Insured. Burn it down and rebuild.

Hazmat folks. We will miss you, especially if an underwear bomber pops by the state.

The Mayor is moaning it is all the predecessor’s fault. Well, she just got the job.
Of course it is the prior 18 year mayor who bungled the town.
But why did you run for mayor if you don’t think you can resolve issues, then, desire closed doors, point fingers, blame media and blogs, and present no resolution at all, except go belly up.

This is DEEP BACKGROUND area of P&T. Any topic is fair game. I do agree with you that far too many comments in far too many posts, in far too many venues, are mindless drivel. In all my years of commentary, I believe that the comments drive the blog, not the post.

So your job, John,…should you decide to accept the mission, is to
1) read a post
2) think it through critically
3) cut the knee jerk response
4) agree with what you agree
5) disagree at will
6) offer an alternative constructive thought as opposed to mindlessly attacking the writings of the factual guy above you.

And if I spoke on what I know in Harrisburg, decision making, etc. your jaw would drop. This was a puff piece.

The true facts are bad enough.

Harrisburg’s debt is $288 million. That is not what it failed to pay. It missed payments of $3.5 million last year. It faces dept payments of about $68 million this year, which is more than its general fund budget.

Your numbers were off the wall. The correct numbers were readily available from numerous sources, including the Patriot-News..

Now I’m hoping you know better and it is your well refined sense of hyperbole, but just to set the record straight it would be darn hard for the city to sell state assets like the capital, auto fleet etc. I’m assuming you do know the difference between the municipal government and the state government. And by the way, who is going to plow the streets or fight the fires or keep the bad guys from you and yours if you fire all the employees.

Now, if you want to work the Erie Times-News into this for your own personal reasons, that’s fine. I think it is a bit absurd. I would not expect more than a solid wire-service story, which as you well know usually is a day or two behind.

I am increasingly tired of the mindless or at least thoughtless rants found on blogs and posts, etc. These are real problems and worthy of real thought.